Curse

Rite · Jul 27, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Most people seem to assume that a tanker has to be a warrior, but wouldn't rangers prove to in fact be far better tanks? I have seen threads where people actually state that rangers are better tanks, and I'm sure some people do use rangers as tanks, but I think that rangers could be used far more often. For example:

A Ranger/Mesmer with 13 (12 + 1) wilderness survival, 4 (3 + 1) expertise and 12 inspiration magic could use a build similar to:

Greater conflagration
Winter*
Inspired hex
Mantra of Frost/Elemental Resistance*
Ether Feast
Troll Unguent
Antidote Signet
Resurrection Signet
*(Elemental resistance if you don't want to bring winter)
There are obviously better builds but I was just trying to illustrate that maybe the new "tank" should be a ranger, not a warrior.

Munanko Roha · Jul 27, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

What is the purpose of this build? Just tanking, no damage output, no active role in your party...if you'r only going to keep aggro I would anyway prefer a Warrior who at least can dish some damage with the Ripostes and Glad Defence...and still I can't understand what kind of group would accept a not-damaging, not-healing, not-supporting charachter...but it's just my way of seeing things, I can't imagine running a Warrior or a Ranger without dealing the most possible dps/interrupts/degen...

Sir Mad · Jul 27, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Hmm the combo Greater Conflag + Winter is really interesting when you solo stuff, but as it converts damage to elemental damages, your warriors will most likely have -20 armor vs physical. Well, if you're posting this build it means that you may not take warriors, but erm... I agree with Munanko, yeah.

Rite · Jul 27, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I guess that makes sense, but then you can take off excess def like inspiration and you still have a pretty good tank if you add inspiration... I was actually thinking of this as opposed to what someone mentioned to be an "ultra tank" which was a warrior with no attack and solely stances but it's true about the problems it causes warriors, though you're fine as long as you don't have one. What's probably a bigger problem (that I've just thought of) is that this may also hinder the spell-casters as well, though if you bring just greater conflagration and not winter, you don't get that. Added bonus, in fact, if you travel with an ele who uses fire magic and in particular mark of rodgart (is that the hex that sets a creature on fire whenever it takes physical dmg?). You can take some attribute points off wilderness survival and add them to expertise and add stances like whirling defence and the ranger stance that I think is in wilderness survival that reduces ele dmg (can't remember the name, can't be bothered to check). SQ is useful to but only to be used once troll unguent has been turned on because it is a stance so replaces the other two. You still have two more which you could use on distracting shot and concussion shot (personal fav but you need good expertise) and distracting shot. You only need 9 marks, the rest goes to expertise and wild survival. There you go, some dmg dealing (whirling defence, 9 marksmanship) as well as interrupts and you still have good ranger tanking that is probably at least slightly more effective than warrior tanks, and yes, in most cases it would be either rangers or warriors because of the problems caused by greater conflag. I'm not a great build-maker (but I'm trying) but I still thinks rangers have better potential at tanking than warriors despite having to worry about npcs destroying the spirit (another minor problem, as it doesn't usually happen except when against for example char with ignite arrows or AoE spells). I guess the biggest problems with ranger tanks is the warrior problem.

Sir Mad · Jul 27, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

You can take some attribute points off wilderness survival and add them to expertise and add stances like whirling defence and the ranger stance that I think is in wilderness survival that reduces ele dmg (can't remember the name, can't be bothered to check).

Dryders Defense*

That's a great skill, but even with 16 WS it lasts only 11 seconds, and recharges in 45 or 60 secs - not sure.

Pick Me · Jul 27, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I would suggest you remove Ether Feast. You are a Ranger, so you don't get the benefit of Fast casting. This means Ether Feast can easily be interupted. It is slow to cast and provides you with healing that you don't really need. Inspire Hex I think is only good once for every 20 seconds. To me that doesn't sound very inspiring.

It may be your only way of removing a hex (although you can cast shatter hex with 0 Domination), it still seems a waste of a slot (unless you go solo).

Since your inspiration stances last longer than their recharges (unless wildblow comes into play), you don't need another stance.

Unless you decide to carry an object, get an attack skill like ignite arrow or a trap or something and get throw dirt.

Maria The Princess · Jul 28, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

you think theres not enouth wariors in GW?

Dyon Adell · Jul 28, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

I think one main reason you rarely see Ranger tanks is because Rangers can do much better things than tanks. With a ranged attack, so many more possibilites(Cripshot, interrupt, spike, massive condition spreader).

Something out of topic: go read Uncle Toot's article regarding ranger tanks. Pretty hilarious.

Etin toenails FTW~

Rite · Jul 29, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Well, my main reason for wanting ranger tanks is for farming in SF, because for some reason I can never find people asking for trappers anymore. If people accepted rangers as potential tankers (though yes, they could be used for far better things than that) without kicking them and when asked telling them

Quote:

"you no warrior",

it would make it much easier to find groups to farm with.
Personally, I wouldn't offer my self as tank (Tank lfp) unless I'd been waiting a bit without getting a group and that someone else was saying "GLF tank" seeing as tanking is not the most interesting role to play in a battle at all.
I've changed my view on things quite a bit, however, since after looking closely at Greater Conflagration and seeing that there are FAR better things to use it on (for example if you're good at energy management, us it with mark of rodgart and if you have several rangers and/or tanks in your party [assuming that you're all following a call], the target is set on fire for quite a while. Add apply poison and hunter's shot to that and you have yourself some nice degen).

Quote:

I would suggest you remove Ether Feast. You are a Ranger, so you don't get the benefit of Fast casting. This means Ether Feast can easily be interupted. It is slow to cast and provides you with healing that you don't really need. Inspire Hex I think is only good once for every 20 seconds. To me that doesn't sound very inspiring. It may be your only way of removing a hex (although you can cast shatter hex with 0 Domination), it still seems a waste of a slot (unless you go solo).

Since your inspiration stances last longer than their recharges (unless wildblow comes into play), you don't need another stance.

Unless you decide to carry an object, get an attack skill like ignite arrow or a trap or something and get throw dirt.

That's sort of what I meant when I said "remove inspiration". Take away the inspiration magic skills too.

PS: couldn't find the article you were talking about.
PS aswell: Must stop with these really long replies. Keep em simple

Sha Noran · Jul 29, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Well, the primary problem with such a build is that you rely too heavily on Spirits for damage reduction; all it takes to ruin you is for one of those guys to break agro and take down either Winter or Greater Conflag. Also, without something like Serpent's Quickness, you're going to be waiting around a bit too much for Spirits to recharge, I think.

I won't critique the rest of that build in particular, because as you said, there are better. I would only say that Warrior's can tank the damage and output damage as they do it; this build (and builds like it) do not do both effectively.

tuperwho · Jul 29, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Back before Factions, my usual FoW group used to only use 1 "tank", and it was a ranger. They can certainly do the job, but most people won't give them a chance.

Sha Noran · Jul 29, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I would like to also note that trying to tank with Whirling Defense is a bad idea; the damage caused from its AoE will cause the enemies to scatter.